HELP removing restricted access pieces from default setup

okay I need some help…

I created Terrain pieces with a restricted access trait, keyed to a Scenario Designer player and with the include initial player (sic) checkbox checked.

Then I placed a bunch of pieces of terrain on the map.

Realizing the observer still always shows as an allowable side with full and complete access wether I like it or not… I removed the scanrio designer player, and changed the restricted access trait (should just be for newly placed terrain though) to nobody with the box unchecked.

I tested and when I place new terrain I can still manipulate it (I think - that may be beofre I unchecked the box).

But now I can not manipulate any of the originally placed terrain, even if I add back in a Scenario Designer player and re-check the box.

Somehow it must be keyed to a player name different from just the string in the list and when you delete and re-add the same player from the sides definiton it loses ownership over all the pieces already created for that side on a map?

Or it does not last across save games? Or across module versions and save games?

Anyway… I just want to delete all the terrain pieces at this point without having to re-edit all the combat units I just went thru and painstakingly rebuilt. Happy to build new terrain pieces, editing the combat units all over again after I just spent hours doing it is… painful.

the module is at http://www.user.shentel.net/pmurphy/Strategos/Strategos.vmod… feel free to just go in and delete all the terrain off the default map if it is easier than explaining how.

I created Terrain pieces with a restricted access trait, keyed to a
Scenario Designer player and with the include initial player (sic)
checkbox checked.

Then I placed a bunch of pieces of terrain on the map.

Realizing the observer still always shows as an allowable side with full
and complete access wether I like it or not…
I removed the scanrio designer player, and changed the restricted access trait (should just be
for newly placed terrain though) to nobody with the box unchecked.
I tested and when I place new terrain I can still manipulate it (I think -
that may be beofre I unchecked the box).

I don’t really understand why you did this, or the significance of the ‘Observer’ still being a valid side. If you create a scenario using a ‘Scenario Developer’ side, then just don’t retire from that side and ‘Scenario Developer’ will not appear on the allowable side list.

If every unit has appropriate Restricted Access traits (Terrain will have Scenario Developer only, Units will have Scenario Developer plus the two sides), then an observer will have no access to any counters at all.

Anyway, I do not care about all that… I just want to delete the friggin
terrain pieces without having to re-edit all the friggin combat units I
just went thru and painstakingly rebuilt. Happy to build new terrain
pieces, editing the combat units all over again after I just spent hours
doing it is… painful.

This is the downside of the development technique you have chosen. I believe I tried to warn you :slight_smile:. Any apparent time saving in not having to set up every unit in the GamePiece palette (which is a one-off cost), is more than lost in the nightmare of having to re-edit every piece every time you need to re-build a scenario (a many-off cost). This is the exact reason I abandonded this approach.

You can’t expect to be able make major changes to a modules structure (adding removing sides, maps, at-start stacks) and expect to be always be able to re-use an old save game. You may be able to, but eventually there is a point where you need to regenerate a scenario, so designing to make Scenario generation fast is advisable.

Another trick I use is to always make a log file of your counter setup, not just a save file. Then, as long as you counter definitions have not changed, you can just set up the terrain, then load your counter setup file as a continuation file and step all of your counters into the scenario.

the module is at
http://www.user.shentel.net/pmurphy/Strategos/Strategos.vmod… feel free
to just go in and delete all the terrain off the default map if it is
easier than explaining how.

I have attached a noTerrain.vsav with the terrain removed.

I did not realize that. I thought, when I did it, that an observer had all access rights regardless, as they do wrt some other items - I read somewhere, I can not cite the specifics at the moment. And I am still suprised to read that I can restrict an observer from the pieces as well as the terrain, although it makes sense given that you can do it with terrain.
But (see below) that will be at the end of the process. I have learned a lesson here re jumping to the end before the middle is done.

I was afraid that comment might be coming the minute I asked for the help. Well, touche. You are correct of course. However… there is at least a little more to it than that. The real issue is it is tough during the module development, yes, but I am looking at that as the one-time thing whereas after the module is done the actual scenario generation should proceed easier this way. Unfortunately the game system (as well as the maturity level of the underlying game design at this point) just does not allow a-priori knowledge at the time of module design of what all the parameters for all the units in all the scenarios are. This is not a module for a game that is already designed where all you have to do is scan the components. It needs to be as extensible as possible without locking the values in place from one scenario to the next.

But obviously more care is needed - so I am going to avoid things like scenario locks and terrain piece restrictions until I have played a game through with the module myself and know that it is at least very close to be done. Then I can add those in as the last thing. In fact maybe I could just make the terain piece layer a dp set by the lock command instead of a marker… wonder if that would still work.

Thank you again Brent. That does the trick and should get me past this for now. I will try to be more careful.

When you change the trait, it does not affect pieces that have already been placed in a saved game.

You should be able to add the scenario designer player back in, load the saved game as that player, and delete the terrain pieces.

rk

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