MMP and Vassal?

Over on CSW, there’s been some discussion of MMP and Vassalp–MMP has announced that there won’t be future Vassal mods for MMP games. It’s not clear if this means that the company won’t allow any mods, or just that it won’t officially create and/or endorse them. It’s also not clear what this means for mods that already exist.

MMP has said that there is something is coming in the future that will apparently replace Vassal in some way, but it’s not clear what that means. In fact, MMP’s comments so far have been rather uninformative. Anyone know what’s going on? I sure hope it doesn’t mean that all MMP mods will be yanked.

Okay, I just saw that this morning MMP said that they’re continuing with things as they are for now–so new mods will come out–but in the future there will be a change. I wonder what they’ll be doing.

Thus spake “pfglenn”:

You’re not the only one wondering what they’re planning.


J.


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If I had to guess, I would say they’re planning something commercial. There’s a lot of grumbling among game publishers about the free availability of free game modules.

  • M.

2009/3/30 Joel Uckelman <uckelman@nomic.net (uckelman@nomic.net)>

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I would think the former myself also. With that in mind I dont see how it is viable - witness Matrix Games, a professional war game company in the electronic medium with their current progress/track record of producing an electronic version of one of the L’n’L boardgame series. 2 years ongoing and still nothing out the door yet for consumer purchase.
If it takes 2+ years to do one game (which is more than normal for commercial game software) I fail to see how MMP will be able to do this for all their products and keep up / current, what with the pre order system where users vote with their wallets on what they should produce. This gives Curt’s software venture no semblance of time to have the electronic product ready when the board product is within a reasonable time frame.

As to latter, I really wish Bruce would join the Vassal project instead of going it alone a he has done. His work is excellent in rules handling. He could contribute a lot here to enable this sort of stuff as a sandbox type feature for Vassal where designers could then go define the rules for their specific mod. I’ve tried to coax him with collaboration before but he was concerned with his IP rights and of course Vassal is open source - an obstacle I wouldn’t be able to bridge or allay his concerns I decided so let it go instead of pursuing.
Its a shame because the 2 together combined would produce the penultimate electronic board version for users imo

From: Jeffrey Brent McBeth mcbeth@broggs.org
To: VASSAL Engine Forums Mailing List messages@forums.vassalengine.org
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:31:04 AM
Subject: Re: [General Discussion]Re: MMP and Vassal?

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:24:48AM -0300, Michael Kiefte wrote:

The hints seem to me to point pretty strongly at Curt’s video game
venture working something out. Or, maybe someone is finally going to
give Bruce Wigdor the money he so richly deserves.

Jeff

“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over
the man who cannot read them.”
– Mark Twain

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Thus spake Timothy Mccarron:

Yeah, I don’t see it either. If that’s the route the want to go, they’re
free to try, I guess.

Being open-source is not inconsistent with maintaining IP rights. If he
wanted to contribute, he’d still be the copyright owner for all of his
contributions. Licensing under the LGPL or GPL is is licensing, not
transfer of ownership. If what he’s actually worried about is letting
other people see his secret sauce, well, that’s another matter.

We’d certainly welcome another programmer.


J.


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By my reckoning, honestly I don’t know but we should leave room for it to come about just in case :slight_smile:. I would think 20-30 years from now there might be some tool around that makes what we use now seem very primitive and I should (hopefully) still be around to see it, if that does occur :slight_smile:

From: Jeffrey Brent McBeth mcbeth@broggs.org
To: VASSAL Engine Forums Mailing List messages@forums.vassalengine.org
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:01:57 AM
Subject: Re: [General Discussion]Re: MMP and Vassal?

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 07:57:10AM -0700, Timothy Mccarron wrote:

So, you’ve piqued my curiosity. If VASSAL+Wargameroom is the
penultimate VTT, what is the ultimate?

Jeff

“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over
the man who cannot read them.”
– Mark Twain

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Thus spake Timothy Mccarron:

If you want to see primitive, check out VASSAL 2.9.9 if you haven’t looked
at it in a while. :slight_smile:

If we keep making progress at the rate we are now, we should be around for
a very long time.


J.


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Could someone please provide a link to this discussion for me?

Thanks,
B.


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Thus spake “Brent Easton”:

The initial part of the discussion is in the SCS folder, running from 9921
to 9925:

talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@485 … b46d/10238

The discussion (in the MMP folder) starts sy 67225 and runs to the present:

talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@485 … d502/69837

(BTW, Jon Gautier is a troll, so you can ignore anything he says.)


J.


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I’m none the wiser. There’s nothing more entertaining than reading a lot of opinionated posts from people who have no clue about what’s going on.

I’m not sure I care about this debate in the sense that I don’t really have any sympathy for companies that won’t support VASSAL. I do wish we had more people on the inside.

I had a good chuckle.

  • M.

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I’d been meaning to post a question as to why GB2 is not available as a Vassal module. Now I wonder if it’s a permission issue. Or is it what I suspected before and just the size of the file and the length of time such a project would take?

I own a copy of the OCS games I play on Vassal. But playing the paper and cardboard game is not practical and FTF play is not available where I live. Yet MMP has every right to protect its copyright as well. Could Vassal build in some sort of registration system as a proof of purchase if a game company required it?

Anyway, does anyone know if a GB2 module is in the works? My copy sits unpunched and unplayed in the closet.[/list]

Thus spake “generalsirarthurcurrie”:

I think the answer in this case is that nobody’s done it yet. (You might
prod Ben to have a go at it. He made the Case Blue module.) I’d like to
play my copy of GB2 someday, as well.

Possibly. Nobody’s ever approached us about it before, so far as I know.


J.


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This already exists. It’s used in the Dan Versson games.


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Ah well… there’s a reason why I do not buy Avalanche Press games, now there is a reason why I won’t be buying any MMP games. Great thing I did not pre-order Baltic Gap…

I’ll also be sending a mail to GMT , just to be sure they continue to support VASSAL online gaming… Good thing they make great games.

Thus spake “jmlima”:

To be fair, they did change their minds—apparently due to the uproar at
ConsomWorld.


J.


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Well that’s a very positive development indeed. I don’t have a lot of
MMP games, so I haven’t been following the conversation very closely,
but it’s nice to see that a major game publisher is not going to
abandon VASSAL.

  • M.

On 04/04/2009, Joel Uckelman uckelman@nomic.net wrote:


Michael Kiefte, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
School of Human Communication Disorders
Dalhousie University
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
tel: +1 902 494 5150
fax: +1 902 494 5151


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Yet. The keyword is yet.

this is a very interesting subject.gaming firms seem to support vassal.
gmt and mmp provide mod and even rules support on their web.
gaming firms are good at making games vassal is good at running a gaming sight.all of these gaming firms i would think should design mod games that fit vassal to the tee. wargamers are like everyone else impulse buyers at least i am.i like to drag aroung the rules and pretend i understand them.since i started using vassal i have once again started gaming and have even added a few new games.why because there is something having the game and looking setting it up in person.
when you see how much work a gaming co put it in to make this game you can judge how good they are or how bad.cheap looking games turn me off. a visual affect i guess.