[size=200]Nekro[/size] reveals spy, targets ?
Arborec
I’m not including councilor abilities if they do not apply
Arborec - 5 votes (Dirzuga Ohao)
Jol-Nar - 3 votes (Deluin Fillac)
Nekro - can’t vote
Mentak - 3 votes (Orid Gim)
Naalu - 3 votes (if voting the same as N’orr, N’orr must give a note)
N’orr - 5 votes (An’grag)
[size=200]Nekro[/size] needs to choose an outcome - Arborec please don’t talk strategy until he does.
Start bargaining and stuff…
Nekro choose for for and passing a Promissory Note to Arborec.
Nekro choose FOR and will be passing a Promissory Note to Arborec.
Jol-Nar passing a Promissory Note to N’orr.
N’orr accepts the note. I think it has to be made public which way I vote, so It is for a no vote.
I think it needs to be made public when notes change hands. I don’t think you need to declare your vote until it is your turn to do so.
Well what i means is he is asking me to vote no, I wasn’t actually voting.
However if you accept the note, you must vote the way the person ask. So its pretty much the same thing.
In a F2F game all players would know what the Promissory Note is exchanged for. I don’t know if this makes a difference in PBF. It’s up to AZ to rule whether or not the exchange of a Promissory Note must be accompanied by a statement of how the receiving player is to vote.
Either way, I will tell all players that N’orr accepted my Promissory Note in exchange for his vote AGAINST the law. AZ’s ruling will determine whether I could lie about it or not.
Really? I have played quite a bit ftf (my wife would say way too much), and we have never actually had people state why they were exchanging notes, in the games I have played it’s not uncommon for everyone to trade notes around even if their reps happened to get killed off during the spy phase. Territorial concessions like for like and that sort of thing.
The promissary notes are what is binding, and one of those notes is a vote.
If I (we-my ftf groups) have been doing that wrong per the rules, let me know with the reference pls, bring it to PMs so as to not clutter the game thread, but I really would like to know.
Thanks
not2good
I agree with you. This is the way I typically play f2f games. But the rules say you must do it this way, and since it wasn’t clarified in the beginning, we have to default back to the rulebook. But the GM has the ultimate ruling on this. I think already knowing the way I vote will influence the way someone else was going to vote.
OK, apparently the rulebook is more than just an oversize coaster with a nifty picture. Sure enough, it’s pretty explicit about how this process is supposed to work, and we have already compromised it 
.
According to the book, the opportunity to give promissary notes begins with the speaker and then goes around the table, with each race being able to offer 1 note per PC.
If we’re cool with keeping things as they are and being slightly out of order for our first 4 spots (technically the Jol-Nar would’ve offered their note before the Nekro could’ve),the Arborec will not offer a promissary note, and will accept the Nekro’s offered note for a ‘yes’ vote on this agenda item.
[size=150]Mentak[/size] would then be next with an opportunity to offer a promissary note for a vote result.
And thank you all, I once again learned something new about this game.
If no one else wants to offer promissory notes we can move on to voting? Starts with Arborec.
Arborecs vote is already bound by their acceptance of the note. 5 votes FOR
Jol-Nar vote 3 against.
Here’s my take. In pbf you miss out on a very important part of negotiating. In ftf you can jump in and say, “Wait, I’ll beat that offer!” It’s not practical to have someone offer a note and then wait a day to see if anyone else wants to jump in try to make a better offer - Assembly already takes too long; we don’t need to add a few more days to the process. So I’m very comfortable with doing notes out of order.
As for publicly stating how someone needs to vote to get a card - that’s really a matter of how a group plays. The rules don’t ever address if private deals are allowed or not - not just for PNCs, but in general. The rules say you ask the person to vote a particular way, but can you ask in private? In my ftf group we text each other anything we don’t want the entire group to know.
I think the game is better with secrecy - and I think thematically it fits. Further, since I’m sure there are plenty of PMs going around that no one else can see, I don’t see why this should be any different.
So in summary - notes may be passed out of order & the passing of a note must be public, but the terms of the note may be private. I’m open to counter arguments, but I suspect everyone is going to agree with this.
That works totally fine with me. Let’s all get our votes in and see what happens.
Obviously anything the GM ultimately decides is how we’ll go. That having been said …
As for whether normal deals are made publicly or privately (by text or just by leaving the room), the rules are–as you say–silent. Each group needs to make this decision.
As for whether Promissory Note deals are public or private, I think the evidence is pretty strong in favor of public. Here’s the quote from the rules I’m looking at:
The fact that this is done in turn order argues strongly for it all being public.
The mechanics as described here (offer a PNC facedown, ask a question; look at the PNC, agree/disagree) all are phrased as a public negotiation. A portion of it is private, obviously – the PNC is never revealed. But I don’t think the language supports this being a secret negotiation. And it is pretty important information that’s being decided on.
Agreed that plenty of pm’s are being sent. In itself, this already makes a PBF far different from FTF, as you can have lots of discussions without anybody else knowing about it. This is a fundamental shift in the way diplomacy works in this game, since if you try to have a private discussion FTF, people know about it; they at least know that it’s happening. So we’ve already moved a massive amount of information from public to private. I think it goes against the spirit of the rule for PNCs also to go private.
But, as I already said, I will obviously accede to the GM.
No PNC from Naalu.
Nekro vote…wait a minute no we dont.
[size=150]Mentak[/size] is next for voting.