I think you could make the “wild beasts” marker an at-start-stack with two layers, one being a blank layer and the other using a scan of the marker. Have the card event set off a global key command and use a trigger on the at-start-stack wild beast pieces that increments the layer. This would of course just be a visual marker and not actually have any enforcement.
If you guys keep your discussion public, I’m sure it will only help other designers who come across the same issues and are looking for answers. There’s a lot you can do with vassal but not a whole lot of (up-to-date) guidance on how to get it done. I’m sure folks would appreciate whatever info they can glean from this thread.
This is really assisting with my understanding about how to go about building the module.
Will also keep the discussion online!
Are ‘At-Start-Stacks’ also the best way to manage the action round and turn markers i.e. one stack per round/turn? And then use global key commands in conjunction with the turn controller to trigger updates to the active layers in the stacks? I see this or something like it in the TS module.
I am i there now … and it is not too scary - just big! I can’t figure out though, how you display the count of the cards in each hand in the toolbar of the main window. Is this supported by the engine, or one of your customisations?
You can open up the TS module in the module editor and gasp at the
horror.
Many lose their sanity at that point.
The next version of VASSAL will make this easier.
M.
I am i there now … and it is not too scary - just big! I can’t figure
out though, how you display the count of the cards in each hand in the
toolbar of the main window. Is this supported by the engine, or one of
your customisations?
I’m having difficulty with Game Piece Layers and At Start Stacks. I’m pretty sure I am doing the right thing, but not getting the right outcome. My At-Start-Stacks do not seem to work - i.e. they do not display at all, no matter how simple I make them (including counters with just a basic piece trait with image and no layers). Is there a trap here for newbies? Any common faults I should look for?
Are you entering XY coordinates for the At-Start Stacks, or moving them where you intend for them to appear? Can you post the module you’re working on to Dropbox or some other place where I could download and take a look?
Most modules don’t do this. It’s far more common to simply create a zone (Turn track) and within that zone have a grid (turn 1, turn 2, turn 3, etc). As each player takes his turn they can drag their turn marker into the next region of the grid and it will report it. I can’t comment on the turn controller / at-start-stack combo as I haven’t messed with the turn controller myself. It sounds like it would work but it’s certainly a lot more labor intensive with making all those stacks.
I would caution you on using the TS module as your template though. It’s certainly a fantastic module, easily the nicest one I’ve seen, but it’s designed from the ground up with custom classes in mind. If you’re not willing to go to the same lengths, you might find that the lessons it teaches won’t carry you very far.
I have uncovered my mistake (at least one of them). I was using the layer trait in the counter in the at start stack, and the first layer was blank (no image). So I could not select it at all, thus could not see it, or adjust the layers via menu commands. Once I set this to be a real image, it displayed and could manipulate it. I am using an irregular grid on the map with locations and setting the at-start-stack to be at these locations.
I have also decided to start from scratch with a new module so I can go step by step and know what I have done and what works and when I stuff up!
So I now have the basics covered for PC and Loyalty control markers. I’ve use a prototype so I can re-use a common counter definition/behaviour. Also used do not stack as these will need to be operated separately from unit counters.
Next step is to establish game piece layers to support a display button which shows the control markers, but hides units and leaders.
I think that I am aware of the wise warnings you give above - I have been reverse engineering sections of TS for my own education (time consuming exercise). My long term goal IS a high one, but NOT as lofty as TS. I do want some mechanics managed by the module, including the action and turn markers. I would like the markers to appear to move when the turn controller cycles through its phases. I figure using at start stacks, a global property or two, and some global key commands and trigger traits on the counters in the turn tracks might get me there!??
Game Piece Layers now working (3 layers, one for Units/Leaders, One for PC/Loyalty and one for Info and Markers), able to toggle these on/off via toolbars.
Also have Event Markers responding (activating layers) to Global Key Commands - triggered by Toolbar commands now - later on card event play. Global Properties updating dependent upon display of Event Marker (set to active = true/false when displayed/not displayed). Using Prototypes to inherit common behaviour for Event Markers to avoid repetitious definition of traits.
Having fun now!
Need to knuckle down now and replicate all the at-start-stacks for every Event Marker, and figure out how to have the cycling of PC Marker Layers reflect as controlling side information - ground work for VP calculations and further implementation of mechanics/rules later on.
Speaking from painful experience, I recommend you get one stack working exactly as you want and only then go into mass production mode. Going back and editing them all because you forgot one little thing is no bueno.
Good advice. I had come to the same conclusion. Now completed a representative set of Event Markers (those with on-map and player copies - eg Appian Way), and those with similar behaviour for multiple players (eg Wild Beasts).
Now time to tackle the PC/Loyalty at start stack behaviours.
Am trying to create reusable prototypes wherever possible/sensible. Also, to minimise impact of future changes and additions.
I’ve just determined how to get the Turn Counter to interact with the rest of the game to reflect the status onto the on-map Turn and Action Round Tracks (focus dicussion on Action Round Track now). As you suggested I created a Zone with a rectangular grid to model each location for the Action Rounds in the Track. I then created At-Start-Stacks for the markers and located them (x,y) in the grid (using snap to grid). In conjunction I created A global hotkey to capture changes in state of the Turn Counter, to send a Hotkey when I wanted it to (action rounds started). At this point I struggled to figure out how to connect the Hotkey to Trigger trait for the counter in the At-Start-Stack. I settled on using a toolbar button to capture the hotkey and forward a Global key Command, which triggers the updates to the action round at-start-stack counters via a layer.
Is this the best way to do this - i.e. connect condition in the Turn Counter to other behaviour in the model?
Is there a way to have a counter respond directly to a Global Hotkey generated from the Turn Counter?
If not, is this a feature, bug or constraint in VASSAL (3.2.5)? If a constraint - I’d be happy to put this into a feature request.
I’m afraid you’re adventuring further then I have up to this point. I don’t have an answer for you. Sorry. But maybe Joel will pop back in and save the day.
Just thought anyone following the thread might like to know progress, here below is the quick update.
Currently I have implemented:
Most Event counters (e.g. Appian Way, etc) displaying/appearing (and set as Global Properties) on a trigger (Global Key Command) which can be connected to a card play for event (later). Also mechanisms to Cancel Events either from card play or selection of menu item on counter when displayed
All regions and locations set on the Sword Of Rome Map (Added new zone for Alliances)
A Turn Counter which implements 9 Turns, 11 Phases and the 5 Play Cards Action Rounds
Mechanics to establish the starting player for the action round and display of this players marker next to the Action Round.
Mechanics to exclude players from Action Round sequence for 2-4 player game
Started Completed the display of marker counters and increment of the action round where these appear based on the use of the turn counter, and player sequence. Associated reporting.
Ditto for the Turn Track. Associated reporting.
Started the display of PC/loyalty markers on Map in regions. Have now achieved the following behaviours:
Selection of PC/Loyalty markers using SHIFT Click (due to separation of layers), to assist with separation of counter management, distinct from units/leaders.
Initial counter is transparent to enable display of the underlying map for initial control and Loyalty Rating
Menu (SHIFT Right Click) to perform
– Change in Control of PC Marker (all powers & independent)
–Ability to change Roman PC Marker to Roman Walled City (support Roman special ability
–Ability to increase or reduce loyalty in range 1-3 once Walled City present), but Gaul, T-Gaul or independent can only be max 1
–Change in Control of Walled City Marker (all powers & independent)
–If Walled City Changed to Gaul, T-Gaul or independent Loyalty Rating set to 1 (regardless)
–Ability to set siege marker to 0-2 & Lifted on walled city only (no validation against loyalty rating – not sure if warranted)
–Siege markers when active offset (left and above)
Separation of PC/Loyalty Markers into a separate layer from units leaders, so can toggle display to show map without units leaders, but with active PC/Loyalty markers (also, PC/Loyalty markers do not stack with units/leaders for ease of unit/leader movement)
New splash with SoR Deluxe Box Artwork
Plunder Track management including recognition of 5 markers (for either Gaul and TA-Gaul), subsequent reset of markers to 0 and notification of impact to VP track for Gaul. Driven by adjustment marker and right click menu. Associated reporting.
Carthaginian Unrest Track (turned out complex!) including calculation of penalty for Cards and VPs, taking into account the Africa Garrison (Value Hard Coded at this stage), flag to disable is Unrest increased by NPA Card Play this turn round, and a reset on start of new turn. Driven by an adjustment marker, with right click menu. Associated reporting. Reporting updated to differentiate an unrest track change and a status report.
Completed Victory Track (just Roman/Gaul on 5/6 VP), driven from right click menu on VP adjustment marker. Ability to either Set VP Value, or increment/decrement. Automatic update of display when changed. Associated reporting.
Completed connection of VP adjustment from Plunder Track to VP Track – up or down when 5 Plunder reached
Adjusted reporting – polishing
Added Dice Rolling Icons/Toolbars
Started on other toolbars that will needed later.
Started on Card Artwork and associated layering.
Downloaded and Installed GIMP2.8
Matt successfully requested for all card and counter artwork from GMT – WD Matt!
Dropbox SOR 2 Work Area established
All artefacts now present in Dropbox, including GMT artwork, GIMP Projects, VASSAL Module, Documentation
Working from Dropbox for automatic backups (pausing synching during development)
Next on the list are:
Complete the Management of default (starting) PC/Loyalty counters and changes for adding/removing support (complex task)
Optimise the structure of the prototypes for best re-use and maintenance
Include Tribal Spaces and Subjugation behaviours
Establish method for all at start stacks
–Different powers
–Walled Cities with different starting loyalty ratings
Completed the tie in of PC/Loyalty Counters to VP calculation and trigger from turn counter
Identify Markers that can be cancelled
Complete Event Markers
Figure out how to manage counters in/around regions and cities, e.g. siege, blockade, battles (2 x powers)
Add temporary event markers, e.g. Volscii and TA-Gaul activation,
Slice and dice of counter artwork to individual images (Matt??) – big job
Further work on the Card Layering (Tim and Matt??) – big job
Clean up GlobalHotKey/GlobalKeyCommand Toolbar connectors
On the horizon are:
Establishing/renewing alliances
Everything Units and Leaders
Everything Cards – ideas about how to structure this is welcome
Toolbar to enable display of players number of DTs and Cards in hand.
Toolbar to enable display of Player Aids
Managing differences due to different number of players in game
Other Toolbars …
YouTube instructional video
Playing SOR V2!
Phew!
Thanks to those who have been helping along the way.
that I am aware of the wise warnings you give above - I have been reverse engineering sections of TS for my own education (time consuming exercise). My long term goal IS a high one, but NOT as lofty as TS. I do want some mechanics managed by the module, including the action and turn markers. I would like the markers to appear to move when the turn controller cycles through its phases. I figure using at start stacks, a global property or two, and some global key commands and trigger traits on the counters in the turn tracks might get me there!??
