tango icons

[mkiefte]

I made some tango-like icons for items for which no obvious existing tango icon exists.

We should probably upgrade those icons ASAP. I’m more than happy to change the defaults if you guys think it’s appropriate for the upcoming beta.

Comments on the icons are welcome.

• M.

[uckelman]

Thus spake “mkiefte”:

I made some tango-like icons for items for which no obvious existing tango ic
on exists.

We should probably upgrade those icons ASAP. I’m more than happy to change t
he defaults if you guys think it’s appropriate for the upcoming beta.

Comments on the icons are welcome.

I have one of the guys from the tango list working on a new icon set.
Sorry I didn’t mention that—I have way to many balls in the air right
now.

–
J.

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[uckelman]

Thus spake “Michael Kiefte”:

Hmmmm…

When do we hear about progress in that area?

Something which would help is if we had a description of each icon we need.

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J.

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[uckelman]

Thus spake “Michael Kiefte”:

I’m in a bit of a difficult position here as I have many of these already
done in both SVG and PNG optimized for 32x32. I’ve been working on a module
and made the module-specific icons tango compatible. This sort of naturally
led to changing the default ones as well.

What I’ve had to create were “connect”, “charts”, “map”, “die”, “units”, and
I think a couple of others. Because it’s a module, it’s a bit scattered.

Does this mean that the other fellow has not yet started?

Yes. I have a commitment from him to do some icons, but I haven’t had
enough time myself to convey what we want yet. Having a list of descriptions
of what we need is the next step so he can get moving.

Would you mind posting the icons you’ve done so we can see them?

–
J.

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[Brent_Easton]

Having a list of
descriptions
of what we need is the next step so he can get moving.

Here is a list to get things started.

It would be useful to have the following facilities :-

• Ability to view and select from Vassal supplied icons. Some icons may be supplied in multiple versions (e.g. Dice Buttons).

• Concept of an ‘Icon Family’. A named set of icons in the standard Tango sizes. Select Icon by Icon Family name and size. Missing icons in a family generated from nearest supplied icon. All Vassal supplied iscons should be supplied as a Family. User can create and reference own Icon families within module.

B.

Manager - Module
Manager - Extension
Manager - Log File

Undo last Action
Step forward through log file
Help
Retire Position

Server - Connect
Server - Disconnect
Server - Get Messages
Server - Post Message
Server - Status

Module - Save
Module - Save As
Module - Details

Mark Pieces unmoved
Game Piece Palette
Various Dice Buttons (4,6,8,10,12,20 Single or multiple)
Global Key Command
Game Piece Inventory Window
Charts Window
Notes Window
Turn Counter

Map - Overview Window
Map - Line of Sight Thread
Map - Hide Pieces
Map - Unhide Pieces
Map - Zoom in
Map - Zoom out
Map - Zoom user select
Map - Image Capture Tool
Map - Text Capture Tool
Map - Show Shading
Map - Recenter Pieces

GamePiece Layers - Rotate layers up
GamePiece Layers - Rotate layers down
GamePiece Layers - Activate Layer
GamePiece Layers - Deactivate Layer
GamePiece Layers - Toggle Layer Activation
GamePiece Layers - Reset All Layers

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[Brent_Easton]

Here is a list to get things started.

Also, perhaps a series of icons generally useful in toolbars in a wide range of modules:

• Numbers 1-20
• Letters A-Z
• Flags/Nation icons
• Various colors - Black/White/Red/Green/Blue/Yellow/Purple/Orange
• Graveyard symbol
• Deal
• End Turn
• ?

Again, These are no good unless there is a way to select icons from the Vassal supplied set.

B.

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[uckelman]

Thus spake “Michael Kiefte”:

Nice list.

I don’t mind having a go at these, but not if it’s a duplication of effort.

In addition to the ones I posted previously, I also have graveyard and map
icons. Many of the icons you list below can be derived from others. All
the ones I’ve done so far are SVG.

• M.

I’ve only now had a chance to look at the ones you posted. Those are
pretty spiffy.

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J.

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[uckelman]

Thus spake “Brent Easton”:

Here is a list to get things started.

It would be useful to have the following facilities :-

• Ability to view and select from Vassal supplied icons. Some icons may be s
  upplied in multiple versions (e.g. Dice Buttons).

Can you be more explicit about this? Are you thinking of the sort of
component which shows you thumbnails of images? (Actually, an image
browser would be nice to have in general… Possibly there’s already
a Swing or Swing Labs component which does that?)

• Concept of an ‘Icon Family’. A named set of icons in the standard Tango si
  zes. Select Icon by Icon Family name and size. Missing icons in a family gene
  rated from nearest supplied icon. All Vassal supplied iscons should be suppli
  ed as a Family. User can create and reference own Icon families within module
  .

Along what lines do you see a family being organized?

BTW, today on the Tango list it was annoucned that the whole
tango-icon-theme package is going to be made public domain, so we no
longer have any licensing issues to contend with for the icons we want
to use or modify.

Manager - Module
Manager - Extension

I think the extension icon should be made by adding a badge to the
module icon.

Manager - Log File

Undo last Action
Step forward through log file
Help

These three already exist in tango-icon-theme.

Retire Position

Server - Connect
Server - Disconnect
Server - Get Messages
Server - Post Message
Server - Status

There are probably some we could modify for these.

Module - Save
Module - Save As

These two already exist in tango-icon-theme.

Module - Details

Mark Pieces unmoved
Game Piece Palette
Various Dice Buttons (4,6,8,10,12,20 Single or multiple)

I think it would be neat if we had dice icons which matched
the dice they roll—i.e., if we had icons showing a d4,
a d8, a d10, a d12, and a d20, not just a d6.

Global Key Command
Game Piece Inventory Window
Charts Window
Notes Window
Turn Counter

Map - Overview Window
Map - Line of Sight Thread
Map - Hide Pieces
Map - Unhide Pieces

Map - Zoom in
Map - Zoom out
Map - Zoom user select

The zoom icons already exist in tango-icon-theme.

Map - Image Capture Tool
Map - Text Capture Tool
Map - Show Shading
Map - Recenter Pieces

GamePiece Layers - Rotate layers up
GamePiece Layers - Rotate layers down
GamePiece Layers - Activate Layer
GamePiece Layers - Deactivate Layer
GamePiece Layers - Toggle Layer Activation
GamePiece Layers - Reset All Layers

–
J.

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[Tim_M]

I can create 3d models of the dice if you need for rendering and output in any format. Spec your criteria if you would want rounded edges for die etc…
3D rendered to 2D images looks much better than trying to make a 2d image look 3D

From: messages-bounces@forums.vassalengine.org [mailto:messages-bounces@forums.vassalengine.org] On Behalf Of Michael Kiefte
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 10:42 AM
To: VASSAL Engine Forums Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Developers]tango icons

I can do other dice as well, but they’re obviously a bit more painful, as all except d6 have visible sides when viewed from above. Not sure how I should approach d4 – probably as viewed from the side, but then it won’t be consistent. I could have a top view of a pyramid with the correct number around the edges and then just omit the other edge numbers.

I haven’t done the drop shadow in the d6s because I thought that should actually be a separate layer in VASSAL.

• M.

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[uckelman]

Thus spake “Tim McCaron”:

I can create 3d models of the dice if you need for rendering and output in
any format. Spec your criteria if you would want rounded edges for die etc…

3D rendered to 2D images looks much better than trying to make a 2d image
look 3D

Do it. We might want the 3D models later anyway, if we add the ability
to roll dice directly one the map once we’re using JOGL.

–
J.

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[Tim_M]

Will have to look at which prog I got that can output svg (I think 3dsmax does) - might have to do a bunch of exporting from one program to another to get there, but will save that for last when all are happy with the dice.

Heres a screen of 6 sided unrendered - no material yet
starting 4 and 8 sided now

Michael Kiefte mkiefte@dal.ca wrote:

If we want to make the dice look like tango, I would suggest top-down view (i90 degrees). I would make the edges somewhat round (see my d6 examples), but not overly. (Although my vague memory suggests that DnD dice really did have sharper corners. A d20 with rounded edges probably wouldn’t even work well in real life however.)

If it is at all possible to output as SVG, that would make the world of difference. Otherwise, I could cope with bitmap and do a vector trace.

JOGL die rolling sounds like a pain in the ass. Might be better to render a movie in blender or something and just play it back on top of the board. In theory you could have six movies for d6, but you could likely get away with one and the final frame is the only one that has a discernable number. Unless someone else is up to modeling a bouncing die in Java … (someone once suggested we model die-collision counter scatter)

But yes, we should absolutely keep the 3d model. Someone else will have to work with the model though. I used blender once, but, wow, is it a steep learning curve and I’ve fallen back down the hill to the bottom since then.

• M.

2008/7/8 Joel Uckelman <uckelman@nomic.net (uckelman@nomic.net)>:

Thus spake “Tim McCaron”:

I can create 3d models of the dice if you need for rendering and output in
any format. Spec your criteria if you would want rounded edges for die etc…

3D rendered to 2D images looks much better than trying to make a 2d image
look 3D

Do it. We might want the 3D models later anyway, if we add the ability
to roll dice directly one the map once we’re using JOGL.

–
J.

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[Brent_Easton]

• Ability to view and select from Vassal supplied icons. Some icons may be supplied in multiple versions (e.g. Dice Buttons).

Can you be more explicit about this? Are you thinking of the sort of
component which shows you thumbnails of images? (Actually, an image
browser would be nice to have in general… Possibly there’s already
a Swing or Swing Labs component which does that?)

I think what Brent is suggesting is that the module designer should be
able to select icons from the Vengine.jar as well as external. This is a
good idea. A thumbnail selector is even better. Even if there is no
stock image selector, I think there’s an example of one in the Java
tutorial.

Yes, that’s what I had in mind. We supply icons in Vengine.jar, but you can’t view them. The only way toselect them is if a component has a ‘Default’ button to set it’s own default icon from Vengine.jar. There is no way to view the complete selection of available icons in Vengine.jar. This becomes important when we start to supply variant icons and ‘generally useful’ icons that may not be tied to a specific component.

Yes, the thumbnail selector is a great idea also.

Also Joel, Can you access images in Vengine.jar using ImageOp?

• Concept of an ‘Icon Family’. A named set of icons in the standard Tango sizes. Select Icon by Icon Family name and size. Missing icons in a family generated from nearest supplied icon. All Vassal supplied iscons should be supplied as a Family. User can create and reference own Icon families within module.

Along what lines do you see a family being organized?

The icons I’ve created are optimized for 32x32 right now. They are all
SVG, but to export at other resolutions requires a lot of tweaking. I
think the first step to get things going is to stick with 32x32 and then
work on the other sizes later.
[/quote]
Tango specifies 3 sizes that should be addressed:

Large: 48x48
Small: 22x22
Extra Small: 16x16

32x32 is medium size and is optional.

An icon family is a named set of icons supplied in 1 or more of these sizes. For example, the icon family ‘go-down’ might be supplied as 2 icons, an extra small icon ‘go-down16.png’ and a medium icon ‘go-down32.svg’. All references to the go-down icon within Vassal components would be by Icon Family name (‘go-down’) and size (‘small’ etc.). The Icon Family class would take card of supplying missing icons by scaling supplied icons. In this case, the missing Large and small icons would be created by scaling the medium svg icon.

If a designer wants to use a new icon for a launch button in a module, they would need to create an Icon Family for it first. I envisage a new top-level component IconFamilyContainer in which you create your IconFamily components.

As for families, that’s another order of magnitude more work.

Yes, but I am looking at the longer term. Icons are used pretty much exclusively in LaunchButtons, so the handling should be pretty central. If all LaunchButtons selected icons by Icon Family, then you could have a preference for the user to set the size of ALL icons in the toolbar and have the whole lot change from medium to small in one go. The generated icons may or may not look great, but that is up to us to supply enough sizes for each to make it work.

Should we try to replace all of the VASSAL defaults now or later?

I would definitely vote for the 3.2 or later and do the whole lot in one go when we have had time to get as many icons together as possible. Let’s not hold up 3.1 any longer than we have to.

Brent.

[Brent_Easton]

On 8/07/2008 at 9:31 PM Michael Kiefte wrote:
Very snazzy.

I didn’t realise you’d be using a full lighting model; SVG just won’t cut
it here. We should think about what these die images are going to be used
for so we can standarise on a lighting source and viewing angle.

I would like to see single die and double die each of d4, d6, d8, d10, d12 and d20, optimized for each of 16x16, 22x22 and 32x32.

That should cover 95%+ of the requirements. Use the single die for a single die roll, use the double die for 2 or more rolls. Lighting etc. does not matter to me as long as the whole set follows a pattern. However, the Tango style guidelines for lighting state:

Having homogenous lighting across all icons also is important for visual consistency. Tango icons are lit from above, with the light source slightly to the left. Icons with on the table perspective may cast a fuzzy shadow on the surface as if the light source came from the position of the observer.

That d6 picture looks great, but it does not really fit the Tango style guidelines at all.

I suspect we will not use 48x48 much in Vassal and the ‘IconFamily’ concept should scale the 32x32 up to 48x48 acceptably.

Regard,
Brent.

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[Tim_M]

Here is the 4 side die in perspective view (didnt finish back faces yet )

the lighting model is the default for unrendered solids in solidworks.
1 ambient light and 2 directionals with different color tints - All this of course can be modified - just point me to the guidelines for the tango lighting, and the viewing angle you want from the camera - easy to fix.

[Brent_Easton]

the lighting model is the default for unrendered solids in solidworks.
1 ambient light and 2 directionals with different color tints - All this
of course can be modified - just point me to the guidelines for the tango
lighting, and the viewing angle you want from the camera - easy to fix.

The Tango Style Guidelines are here: tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon … Guidelines

Cheers,
Brent.

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[uckelman]

Thus spake “Brent Easton”:

Also Joel, Can you access images in Vengine.jar using ImageOp?

Yes.

None of the imageop code concerns itself with where the images
come from. The SourceOps ask the DataArchive for images, so you
can load anything that the DataArchive can find.

J.

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[uckelman]

Thus spake “Brent Easton”:

I would like to see single die and double die each of d4, d6, d8, d10, d12 an
d d20, optimized for each of 16x16, 22x22 and 32x32.

I have a somewhat different suggestion: Use numeric badges. If the button
rolls 3d4, then have a badge showing the number 3 superimposed on the
icon. (Could do the same for modifiers…) The icon and badges can be
composed at runtime.

I suspect we will not use 48x48 much in Vassal and the ‘IconFamily’ concept
should scale the 32x32 up to 48x48 acceptably.

32x32 and larger are almost always going to be a straight rasterization of
the SVG, so won’t require any special care. It’s really on the 16x16 and
22x22 which need to be retouched once their rasterized.

–
J.

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[uckelman]

Thus spake “Michael Kiefte”:

However, what Tim has done is quite striking. That would be enormously
useful for a die rolling animation.

Yes. That’s what I want to use it for, regardless of whether we use it
for creating icons. I’m not suggesting that we build a physics model
just for dice rolling. For this, we should look at what ZunTzu does.

–
J.

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