Version 3.4 Logs Unreadable with Older Versions

Technical Support & Bugs
1

I’m a GM in a game with 20 players. I’ve just found that if I create a log file for these players, many of them are not aware of the updated version of Vassal, many do not want the new version of Vassal, and worse yet any log file created with 3.4 is NOT readable by older versions of Vassal. This creates a problem. I’m forced to use an older 3.2.17 so that the Log files I send the players are compatible with all the platforms of the various players in the game.

Will there be a time when files created by Version 3.4 are readable by older versions of Vassal?

2

Thus spake Cundiff:

I’m a GM in a game with 20 players. I’ve just found that if I create a
log file for these players, many of them are not aware of the updated
version of Vassal, many do not want the new version of Vassal, and worse
yet any log file created with 3.4 is NOT readable by older versions of
Vassal. This creates a problem. I’m forced to use an older 3.2.17 so
that the Log files I send the players are compatible with all the
platforms of the various players in the game.

Will there be a time when files created by Version 3.4 are readable by
older versions of Vassal?

No, because there can be things in files written by 3.4 that older versions
can’t interpret correctly.

If you have players who do not want to use 3.4, we’d like to know why so
we can address whatever problems they’re having. (BTW, are they aware that
they can have more than one version of VASSAL installed at once?)

–
J.

3

I have canvassed the 20 players in my current game. The majority have versions newer than 3.2.17, though only a few have the latest and greatest. The general comment of those who DO have the latest and greatest can be summarized by this comment,
"I have 3.4.6. This was brand new 2 weeks ago, and there have already been 2 releases since then. It looks like we are going to get continuous updates from here on out. "

This reads to me as saying, “there are so many bugs that they cannot keep up with them without new updates on an almost daily basis”. And when you look into what’s in those new updates you find there are half a dozen corrections per version number at a minimum. Thus from 3.4 to 3.4.8 there have been at least 48 bugs and there’s no sign of this slowing down.

That said, of the 20 people who I have in my Gunslinger group, and I’ve not heard from about 5 of them just yet, their versions run from 3.2.17 to 3.3.6 to 3.4.9 (one guy identified having this). What all this means is that IF I ran the game with 3.4.8, approx 2/3 of my gamers would be unable to read their Vassal Logs if I updated to 3.4.8. In order for All of my players to be able to read their logs, I need to run an older version that can be read no matter what version of Vassal the player is running.

So, I will make the comment that the latest and greatest Vassal files NEED to be readable by earlier versions. Absent this all these “advances” will be causing problems.

4

Thus spake Cundiff:

I have canvassed the 20 players in my current game. The majority have
versions newer than 3.2.17, though only a few have the latest and
greatest. The general comment of those who DO have the latest and
greatest can be summarized by this comment,
"I have 3.4.6. This was brand new 2 weeks ago, and there have already
been 2 releases since then. It looks like we are going to get
continuous updates from here on out. "

Yes. This is a good thing. It means that bugs are being fixed. See more
below.

This reads to me as saying, “there are so many bugs that they cannot
keep up with them without new updates on an almost daily basis”. And
when you look into what’s in those new updates you find there are half a
dozen corrections per version number at a minimum. Thus from 3.4 to
3.4.8 there have been at least 48 bugs and there’s no sign of this
slowing down.

Your interpretation of what’s going on here is off base.

Consider the 13 changes in 3.4.8: Six fix bugs which are very old; you’ll
find all six of these bugs in 3.2.17. Six are improvements. One fixes a
bug which if I remember correctly was introduced in 3.3 sometime.

You might make the case that there are “so many bugs that they cannot
keep up with them without new updates on an almost daily basis”, but
the bugs you’re talking about are bugs you already have in 3.2.17.

Every 3.4 release so far except for 3.4.5 has fixed at least one bug
which was more than a decade old. We have the manpower at the moment
to fix old bugs, so we’re fixing old bugs.

It’s also worth remembering the frequency with which we did releases
when 3.2 was current. There were eighteeen 3.2 releases. That’s how
we got from 3.2.0 to 3.2.17. Those were often a month or less between.
Similarly for 3.1—the last 3.1 release was 3.1.20. Having no releases
for four years between 3.2.17 and 3.3.0 is what’s unusual.

That said, of the 20 people who I have in my Gunslinger group, and I’ve
not heard from about 5 of them just yet, their versions run from 3.2.17
to 3.3.6 to 3.4.9 (one guy identified having this).

That’s likely someone using a test build.

What all this means
is that IF I ran the game with 3.4.8, approx 2/3 of my gamers would be
unable to read their Vassal Logs if I updated to 3.4.8. In order for
All of my players to be able to read their logs, I need to run an older
version that can be read no matter what version of Vassal the player is
running.

So, I’ll ask again: What is the obstacle to everyone using 3.4 for your
game?

No one is going to sink work into 3.2 at this point, but as you have my
attention and 3.4 is being actively worked on, you have an opportunity
to have whatever problems your players are facing addressed in a version
which is current rather than dead. Why not take that opportunity?

–
J.

5

I had two problems, one of which may have been solved tonight by one of the Gunslingers in our group. The multi-level overlays in Gunslinger are supposed to be “hideable” so you can see what’s beneath them. For instance there are buildings with up to 4 and 5 floors. You need to be able to hide each floor in turn so you can see and move characters that are on lower levels. But due to (I think) the new versions of Java, the old way of doing that disappeared. It still didn’t work in 3.4. However, one of the guys tonight said he found a way to trick the module into accomplishing this.

Two, as the GM for this game, well the one who runs the largest Blind game for the last 30 years, I find it very useful to be able to copy specific items from the Master vlog into a subordinate character’s vlog. But I’ve never been able to do that. I’ve always had to build the individual Character Logs from scratch referring to the Master and then dropping counters from the Charcter Log’s Counter Palette to make a new log for each turn. This as you can imagine can be exceedingly time consuming when you’ve got 20+ guys on the board (and I’ve at times had more than 40). So, I’d like to be able to highlight specific items and counters in a Master Log, copy them, and then paste them into the corresponding Character Log.

6

Well the glitch continues with the overlays. Steve Brown, one of our professional “gunmen” says he can get it to work properly by laying the overlay atop the board, using the 2nd floor button to make it disappear, and using the Reset button to make it reappear. This is how it’s supposed to work. Steve is indeed running 3.4.8. I, on the other hand, using 3.2.17 am unable to make this happen. I will have to double check on my other Win7 tomorrow to see if my version of 3.4.8 runs this properly.

7

The 3.4 release involved the fixing of many long-standing bugs and this did affect a number of modules.

One of the reasons for so many quick 3.4 releases is that we have been jumping on and fixing all reported differences in behaviour in modules between 3.2.17 and 3.4. There where a small number of modules that where making ‘use’ of bugs that just had to be fixed and we where able to consult with the module owners and get the modules changed to work correctly.

But we can only fix bugs that are reported to us! To be of assistance, we need a detailed description of how to reproduce the problem in your module, and preferably, a log file that demonstrates the problem happening. We can then work out whether it is a bug that needs fixing, or if your module in one of the few that needs to be fixed and then provide you with the details of how to fix it. You can open a bug report yourself on our online bug tracker, or we can do that for you.

We can’t individually test the 1000+ modules out there with every release, and we can’t fix bugs that no-one tells us about.

From your earlier description, it sounds like your second issue is an enhancement request, it is not a problem with version 3.4 itself. Does this sound correct? So we are just looking at the Overlay issue? You can also open an enhancement request issue on the bug tracker with detailed suggestions on what functionality you want to be included or enhanced. We review these regularly for good ideas of things to add to Vassal. Another reason why Vassal keeps getting new releases.

Ultimately, you can request that players in your games use a specific Vassal version. There is no need to upgrade to each point release immediately if it only fixes bugs that do not affect you. The Vassal installer supports running multiple versions of Vassal if some players still want to use the latest for another module. There is also no reason not to keep using version 3.2.17 to finish a game in progress if you are happy to cope with the bugs in that version.

8

Thus spake Cundiff:

Well the glitch continues with the overlays. Steve Brown, one of our
professional “gunmen” says he can get it to work properly by laying the
overlay atop the board, using the 2nd floor button to make it disappear,
and using the Reset button to make it reappear. This is how it’s
supposed to work. Steve is indeed running 3.4.8. I, on the other hand,
using 3.2.17 am unable to make this happen. I will have to double check
on my other Win7 tomorrow to see if my version of 3.4.8 runs this
properly.

May we see the module and have a description of how to reproduce the
problem? Without that, there’s not much we can do to help.

–
J.

9

Howdy,

You can download the Gunslinger Module and map extensions from my DropBox. Here are the links you’ll need:

dropbox.com/s/pl2rm7dba09lr … .vmod?dl=0

dropbox.com/s/ivjv101ik48ut … .vdmx?dl=0

dropbox.com/s/jvbm0tvo6s3kz … .vmdx?dl=0

You are correct about the “enhancement” in that one thing I’d like is to be able to highlight objects on one open vlog and directly copy them to another. That would indeed be something outside of the Gunslinger module itself. Also, it would be nice to be able to open the module editor of Module A and copy a feature found there directly to Module B. One might have to change graphics, but the structure of how something was done is what I’m looking for. As a designer I may find something in a module someone else designed is useful in one I’m working on, but I may not quite understand how they did it. But I wouldn’t have to if I could simply copy from one module to another by simply right click, copy and then paste.

10

Could you post a vsav of vlog file where the building issue can be seen? Or explain how to reproduce it?

Kr
Claudio

11

I created a map with a 2d floor and 3d floor overlays.

When I click 2d floor, only 2d floor remains.
Then if I click on the 3d floor button the 2d floor disappears but 3d floor does not appear… No more overlays are visible
Then I click “Reset Layers” and both 2d and 3d floor appear.
I can then again select either 2d or 3d floor to only keep that one.

This works exactly the same with 3.2.17 or 3.4.8

Is this the expected behaviour or what you expect to happen is that when 2d floor is visible and I click on 3d floor then 2d floor disappears and 3d floor appears?

Kr
Claudio

12

Cundiff,

I have checked more in detail, I created a map with 1 overlay per level (Gully, Ground, Hiil, FOliage, 2d,3d, 4th 5th floors).
I then spotted 1 error in the 3d Floor button. It omitted to hide the 4th floor if present.

You can get the module here
dropbox.com/sh/t6911k7gslfn … x-tMa?dl=0

13

Howdy,

Yes, that’s how it’s supposed to work, but I found a glitch in your update. I create the 2nd Floor Overlay atop the Stable (for instance). I placed a character on the 2nd Floor (changing that character’s level to match 2nd Floor). I then click on the 2nd floor button to make it disappear, and it does along with the character on the 2nd Floor, which is correct, it’s supposed to do that.

Then I clicked on the 2nd Floor to make it disappear. It dutifully did so. Next I created a character that I wished to place on the Ground floor (as if that character had walked onto the board and into the Stable). I change that character’s level to be Ground (it’s already set that way, but to be safe I always check the change level button and click on the appropriate button - just a good habit to get into with Gunslinger). I dragged that character onto the board, which presently is showing the Ground Level. … the Character’s counter Disappears! I tried again, same thing, it disappeared. That isn’t supposed to happen. By making the 2nd Floor disappear, we’re supposed to be able to see the Ground Floor, move characters on that floor, and or create new things such as a character gets shot dead, his weapons fall to the ground. This requires new counters for his weapons to be created in the hex where his corpse now lies. All of this should be functions that can be seen on the Ground Floor. BUT None of these things are visible the instant you drag them onto the board. They ALL disappear.

I click on the Reset Button, and they appear, but not on the Ground Floor. Regardless of their level showing them as being Ground Floor, they appear only on the 2nd Floor Overlay. The 2nd Floor disappeared when I clicked the 2nd Floor Button, but any new counters created for the floor beneath disappear and when the 2nd Floor reappears so too do the new Ground Floor counters. And That Isn’t how it’s supposed to work.

I appreciate your help.

14

The last few posts appear to be about something which either does or doesn’t work in both 3.2.17 and 3.4.8—which leaves me still wondering what the obstacle to upgrading is.