Brent, I think this is mostly aimed at you.
I have been trying to digest your chit activate.txt how-to on how to get units to highlight when you pull their formation HQ.
Under Storing the Information, you are adding a Marker (Marker - Formation - 1st Para Brigade) to the prototype.
What is the function of a Marker in general ? I think I get the general flow of what you are doing in TDC, but its going to take me a while to digest it all.
thanks,
Tom
A marker in one instance could be described as a user defined property that
other traits can access and check against when doing things.
Let’s say you have 2 counters.
On one counter theirs is a marker with the name Side and a value of Red.
On the other counter it also has a marker with the name Side but a value of
Blue.
Using a trigger or GKC etc… you could reference these properties in the
filters so that whatever you want to perform/happen only affects the correct
components
i.e on a GKC that might turn on a highlight or layer, you might have in its
filter ‘Side = Red’
Thus whenever the GKC executes it will apply whatever it is going to do only
to the counter with the marker whose side is Red and ignore the other
counter because it’s side is defined as Blue
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Hi Tom,
Tim has pretty much explained this one. I have created one prototype for each Formation in the game that set the marker called ‘Formation’ equal to a unique value for that formation. I then add that prototype to every counter of that formation.
I then use Global Key Commands to issue commands to all units of a particular formation by reference the Formation marker in the property match string.
Regards
Brent.
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Alright, I keep trying to get the chit activation thing down, but I am still having problems.
Part of my problem undoubtedly is that I am trying to reverse-engineer The Devils Cauldron, which has to be the most complex module ever made.
So, my first question: why do you have a prototype for Chit as well as “Coffee Chit” ?
I think I ran into another bug (3299 build). When I tried to put a rectangular grid on the USED part of my activation board (just like in TDC), I couldnt get a grid to show up. Even though I had “show grid” on, and had a color selected (black), the grid would not show up when I tried to edit it. Very odd.
thanks,
Tom
OK, I must of made a mistake. I didnt define the board area before I tried to put a grid on it.
I found another module with a chit activation - A Victory Lost. However, I feels pretty familiar to TDC.
Another question: in TDC, I see a lot of prototypes (mostly markers) that I cant see that have any effect - like Infantry, Mobile or Tracked… In AVL, there are Italian, Hungarian, etc - do these definitions have any game function ?
thanks,
Mad Dog
Hi Tom,
Complex possibly, but I hope logical 
Because there are 4 different types of Activation chits that share some of the same commands with other chits. The ‘Chit’ prototype has the basic traits that are common to all types of Chit - The Mask trait and a Marker defining Type=Chit
‘Chit-Coffee’ is for the German and Allied DC that just go straight to the Coffee cup only. Notice that the ‘Chit-Coffee’ prototype includes the prototype ‘Chit’, so it includes the base command
Chit-Coffee-Division is for the Division Activation chits. Notice it includes the ‘Chit-Coffee’ protoype, which will also bring in the ‘Chit’ prototype.
Chit-german-Formation is for the German Formation Activation Chits and includes their special commands for purchase etc.
Chit-allied-Formation is for the Allied Formation Activation Chits and includes their special commands.
The Prototype structure has evolved over time and is not necessarily optimium now. Starting from scratch, ‘Chit-allied’ could be rolled up into ‘Chit-allied-Formation’ and ‘Chit-german’ into ‘Chit-german-Formation’.
That’s one of mine also. It uses a similiar activation sequence
The purpose of the prototypes is to add commands to the different unit types depending on their capabilities :- Only Mobile units have Column mode.
In some cases, they are just setting up Markers to identify those type of units. Not all of these are used for anything useful at the moment, but I have built it all for future expansion. When I was setting this all up, it seemed useful to be able to identify the type of any unit in case I later found I need to do something to ‘all german, tracked units’ for example. At some stage I may also want to display pop-up terrain cost data unique for that unit.
It is a lot easier to design all this stuff in right at the start, even if you don’t use it, than to try and add it in later.
Regards,
Brent.
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Complex possibly, but I hope logical
Well. Ummm. OK, before I start here, I would like to know where I can Pay Pal some money. I dont have a source force account, so I cant send money that way. I figure I ought to send some more.
Now, as for logical, I am sure it is entirely logical - to one of the people who is programming the entire engine.
Me, I feel like a guy trying to fix a warp engine, armed only with a heavily redacted out-of-date version of “Starship Engines for Dummies (in Klingon)”.
Dont get me wrong, plunking down a map and some counters is pretty easy. I have done it twice before (Arriba Espana and Apocalypse of Steel - for which I had some big help with).
However, one you get into some of the automation like chit-draws and such, it gets a lot more complex. I find most of the documentation to be rather spotty, and still very java-technical. I realize thats a function of things still being in flux, so I am not really complaining about that.
Because there are 4 different types of Activation chits that share some of the same commands with other chits. The ‘Chit’ prototype has the basic traits that are common to all types of Chit - The Mask trait and a Marker defining Type=Chit
‘Chit-Coffee’ is for the German and Allied DC that just go straight to the Coffee cup only. Notice that the ‘Chit-Coffee’ prototype includes the prototype ‘Chit’, so it includes the base command
Chit-Coffee-Division is for the Division Activation chits. Notice it includes the ‘Chit-Coffee’ protoype, which will also bring in the ‘Chit’ prototype.
Chit-german-Formation is for the German Formation Activation Chits and includes their special commands for purchase etc.
Chit-allied-Formation is for the Allied Formation Activation Chits and includes their special commands.
The Prototype structure has evolved over time and is not necessarily optimium now. Starting from scratch, ‘Chit-allied’ could be rolled up into ‘Chit-allied-Formation’ and ‘Chit-german’ into ‘Chit-german-Formation’.
Ahhhhh, that answers one of my questions. Functionally, they look to do the same thing, but are just (effectively) given different titles.
In some cases, they are just setting up Markers to identify those type of units. Not all of these are used for anything useful at the moment, but I have built it all for future expansion. When I was setting this all up, it seemed useful to be able to identify the type of any unit in case I later found I need to do something to ‘all german, tracked units’ for example. At some stage I may also want to display pop-up terrain cost data unique for that unit.
OK, can see why you do that - its just a bit confusing when trying to reverse-engineer something if a lot of the prototypes and markers are placeholders at the moment.
Still, I tried copying the chit draw structure of AVL to my project, and it still isnt working right. If all I need in my activation window is the cup, and a section for used (drawn) activation chits, all I should need (as far as I know) for the activation chits is a “chit” prototype with a Marker (“chit)”, a Mask (so the players don’t know what it is until they draw it), and a Return to Deck command (so you can toss it back when done).
thanks,
Tom
Hi Tom,
Rodney can supply the paypal address.
But don’t forget that ‘Chit-german’ is referenced as a prototype by ‘Chit-german-Formation’ i.e. Prototypes within prototypes. The effect of each is quite different as ‘Chit-german-Formation’ is a superset of ‘Chit-german’.
Plus a ‘Global Key Command’ to do the Activating?
If all of your chits have the same commands and go to the same places, then they can all use the same prototype with a minimal set of commands.
The TDC Chit setup is complicated by the rules for purchasing chits and the different boxes where these get placed.
When building these things, I start simple and give all of the intermediate Trigger Actions command names so that I can try out each part of the process.
I’m happy to have a look at your module if you like.
Cheers,
Brent.
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But don’t forget that ‘Chit-german’ is referenced as a prototype by ‘Chit-german-Formation’ i.e. Prototypes within prototypes. The effect of each is quite different as ‘Chit-german-Formation’ is a superset of ‘Chit-german’.
It took me a little while, but then I saw the how and why of your nested prototypes. But, as you said earlier, a lot of it are still placeholders ?
Plus a ‘Global Key Command’ to do the Activating?
I have a Refill Cup Global command when I was trying to follow TDC. Oddly enough, I cant find a global command in AVL.
If all of your chits have the same commands and go to the same places, then they can all use the same prototype with a minimal set of commands.
Right now the Activation Chit Prototype just has a Mask, Marker, and Return to Cup function. I think thats all I need.
I’m happy to have a look at your module if you like.
Thats very brave of you - kind of like Rembrandt looking at a 3rd grade art project. : ) If you insist, I have the file “SRB Playtest2” in an iDisk. If you can access an iDisk, search for the “other user’s public folder” for “Lucien”. Once that opens up, look for a folder “Tom” where the file is in. If you dont have iDisk access I will upload to my website when I get home.
thanks,
Tom
You don’t need a SourceForge account to donate money via the SourceForge link. Just click through and make a payment via PayPal.
rk
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Every single link I can find dumps me to a source forge login. Every recent donor also has a source forge login.
So, I bit the bullet and registered anyway. Money should already be at your end.
Thanks guys.
Tom
If you arent on a mac you can still access an iDisk easily.
Try the following web address:
idisk.mac.com/Lucien-Public/Tom?view=web
or
homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/File … ring1.html
The file is SRB playtest2
thanks,
Tom
I’ve fixed the links so that they go direct to PayPal now. Thanks for pointing this out,
And thanks for the donation!
rk
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Im glad I could give a little back to the project.
thanks,
Tom
Hi Tom,
I’ve had a look at your module, and Activation doesn’t work because you have missed out half of the steps in the tutorial. There is no marker in the chits to associate them with any counters. There is no Global Key Command in the Chits. There is no layer to be activated in the counters?
Have I misunderstood something? I thought you where trying to implement Chits activating matching units as per my How-to and where having problems?
Regards,
Brent.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 17/03/2008 at 6:31 PM MadDog wrote:
Brent Easton
Analyst/Programmer
University of Western Sydney
Email: b.easton@uws.edu.au
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After some attempts, I realized that trying to follow your chit activation system would have to wait until I had figured out the basic chit draw system. So, at the moment, I am not trying to implement your activation system.
What I am trying to do is just get the chit-cup system to pull- something much more closer to AVL than TDC, I suppose. I originally tried to copy TDC, but then switched to trying to follow AVL as it was much simpler.
I have one activation board, which contains a multi-zone grid - one for the used (“USED”), or drawn chits, and a section for the deck (“Activation Board”). The deck uses the same general settings as AVL. I have a refill cup global command, and I made 2 chits that I can drop in the cup for testing purposes. Each chit is a prototype that has the mask, type and return to cup function.
What isnt working: First, sending the chits to the cup sends them to the upper left corner instead of the predetermined box. Second, the counters are not flipped by default (to the “?” side) when in the cup. I can manually flip them, but then if I click on them once, they “un-flip” for some reason.
I have been using the 3299 build. Should I be updating to the latest builds each time, or should I stay away until you guys give the ok ?
Sorry for the confusion.
thanks,
Tom
Thus spake “MadDog”:
If you’re going to use my builds and you see a problem, then you should
always check for a newer one to see if the problem has been fixed.
–
J.
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Hi Tom,
That’s because that is where you have defined your Deck, at 35, 38 when it really needs to be at 90, 105. I find it useful when first setting up to turn on the ‘Draw Deck outline when empty’ feature so that you can where your deck is.
Again, caused by your Deck not being inside the area you are expecting it.
Regards,
Brent.
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First, I went to the latest build 3345. Your fix now makes it pretty much work as needed ! Thanks, I was hoping it was something simple. D’OH !
It still has the SVG graphic problem in my starting forces window and the dead pool though.
Still, much progress !
thanks,
Tom
Thus spake “MadDog”:
I know. I haven’t had time to look at it yet.
–
J.
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